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Lord of the Rings Discussion and Conversation.



Lord of the Rings Discussion & Conversation

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[24 Jan 2010|12:13pm]

joykinz
Community Promotion: 4th age RPGCollapse )
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Mod post - How should we revitalize this community? [14 Nov 2007|10:03pm]

periantari
[ mood | determined ]

How should we revitalize this community?

We can do several things including:

making biweekly discussions
2(25.0%)
continue with random quotes we love
0(0.0%)
LotR essay analysis (bring in other links to discuss)
1(12.5%)
Other --please comment
0(0.0%)


I know it's been *really* quiet around here since our attempt in making something happen with the discussions last year in '05, 06. I really love this community and want to bring it back since LotR books are always being reread and i'm sure there are views about it that you want to bring about and discuss!
So please answer this mini-poll and bring us some feedback so how you want this community to be like.

Also, for you graphics talented people out there, please consider making a new layout in here? New icons would be superb as well. :)
If interested, please email me at periantari@gmail.com.

So please comment about anything and do continue to post quotes in here like in the past~

hannon le, mellyn nin~
13 comments|post comment

[23 Mar 2006|07:33pm]

cloudednine
[ mood | amused ]

"Some years ago the Lord of the Black Land wished to purchase horses of us at great price, but we refused him, for he puts beasts to evil use. Then he sent plundering Orcs, and they carry off what they can, choosing always the black horses: few of these are now left. For that reason our feud with the Orcs is bitter." (Eomer, The Riders of Rohan)

This is one of my favourite quotes for unintentional humour, because who can go past Sauron the fashionista? "No self-respecting Nazgul's wardrobe is complete this age without billowing black robes, an impregnable aura of deepest evil and, to add a touch of elegance, a handsome black equine accessory. Bought or stolen, black horses are this age's must-have. Get in quickly - stock is disappearing fast!"

Did anyone else think that when they read that passage, or was it just me and my warped sense of humour?

3 comments|post comment

The Breaking of The Fellowship discussion [20 Mar 2006|08:09pm]

haushinka07
[ mood | artistic ]

I apologize for this being late; there was a storm here yesterday and I wasn't able to get online.

I chose this chapter because it's such a major shift in the series. In this chapter we have Boromir's attempt to take the ring and Frodo and Sam breaking away from the Fellowship.

After the Fellowship has stopped to rest they are in a prediciment of deciding what to do next. Frodo, being the ring-bearer is chosen to make the decision. While taking an hour to decide, he goes for a stroll in the woods. During this walk Boromir appears and seems kind and helpful, and wishes to protect Frodo. This then leads to him trying to convience Frodo to give him the ring for what Boromir sees as a good cause. When Frodo refuses, he becomes angry and forceful in his attempt to take the ring. I believe this event had been well lead up to and hinted on in previous chapters. Boromir seemed as though he would easily fall into temptation from the start. Due to fear Frodo then slips on the ring in order to escape from Boromir. After this we are introduced to an apologetic and sincere Boromir, but it's too late for Frodo's perspective to change now.

While Frodo has the ring on we see glimpses of prepartion for the future war. We see the sorrow and grief of battle, the harsh, brutal reality of blood shed. Signs of the war which is to come. After battling with himself Frodo is able to remove the ring and comes to the conclusion that he must carry on by himself.

Next we are shown that the others are questioning where Frodo has gone to. Boromir then returns informing them that Frodo has disappeared with the ring on. Sam then runs off being followed by Merry in Pippin. Aragorn chases after them with the others and finds Sam and insists that they stick together. Sam is unable to keep up with Aragorn and soon falls behind. He then realizes that Frodo must be trying to go off on his own and goes to find him. When Sam reaches the shore he sees Frodo drifting away in a boat, and of course, being the loyal servant he is, he tries to get on the boat as well. Sam attempts to swim out to Frodo, an act which almost cost him his life proves his true friendship towards Frodo, and this loyality never fades. Frodo and Sam then sail away together with their task ahead of them, and the others with a task behind them. The Fellowship is now broken.

What decision do you believe Frodo would've made if Boromir had not tried to take the ring from him?
How do you think things would have turned out had the Fellowship had not been broken?
If Sam and Frodo would not have stayed together how do you think would the rest of the books would've played out?

I honestly believe Frodo would've decided to go off on his own regardless of Boromir's actions, it just fits Frodo's character.
I think Middle Earth would've fallen to evil had the Fellowship not been broken. The breaking was required in order for them each to complete their own tasks.
If Sam and Frodo weren't a team I think it'd be very sad, they help one another through the most difficult of events. Without the support and care that Sam offered to Frodo I think his task would have been much more dangerous and painful to succeed at.

Everything changes after this chapter and so many events occur, it really is a big transition. I hope you all enjoy re-reading this chapter, and hopefully I didn't do too awful with my discussion. :p

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readthebook Discussion - A Shortcut to Mushrooms [10 Mar 2006|11:18am]

cassandria
[ mood | hopeful ]

Hey all, please forgive the duplicate post. I had a blonde moment the other day and forgot to select the readthebook community when I updated. *blush* Anyway, it serves as a friendly lil reminder for the members I tagged. :p

A Shortcut to MushroomsCollapse )

4 comments|post comment

A Shortcut to Mushrooms - readthebook discussion [05 Mar 2006|09:46am]

cassandria
[ mood | enthralled ]

This week’s chapter is A Shortcut to Mushrooms from The Fellowship of the Ring. :)

I picked this one because it is loaded with fear, precious moments and humor and is one of my very favorites. It amused me nearly immediately as it plunged into Pippin teasing Frodo about wanting to eat his breakfast for him.

-What moments amused you most?

I love how it brought out the relationships between the hobbits...I think it would be interesting to discuss the changes Frodo saw come over Sam and the relationships of all of the characters.

-In what ways do you think Sam changed?

-What moments touched you, as all of the characters interacted?

As always, Tolkien so eloquently described the scenery and the fear that blanketed the Hobbits.

-What passages emphasized the fear the most for you?

And lastly, I was wondering if anyone else felt the exhaustion the Hobbits felt as severely as I did; with the way that Tolkien wrote it? :D

Please read and comment! :D

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"March 2006: Back to Middle-Earth Month [25 Feb 2006|10:28pm]

periantari
[ mood | excited ]

Some pimpage... ;)

"March 2006: Back to Middle-Earth Month

Miss the golden days of the Lord of the Rings fandom? Get homesick for Middle-Earth?
Then this is for you!

You don't need to sign up anywhere to participate. But if you see this on your friends-page and like the idea, please post this text to your LJ to spread the word.

How to participate:

1. Pick a day of the week (or more than one) on which you resolve to always post something LotR-related in March, and let your friends-list know.
2. Go back and read your favourite chapters from the book, or watch the movies again. Let the beauty of LotR inspire you. And then, share the love.
3. Start your subject line with (B2MEM) when you post, and use a "b2mem" tag. This'll make it easy to spot your B2MEM-entries.
No matter if you just ramble about your undying love for LotR, picspam us, post wallpapers, icons, or write fan fic / create fan art, the plan is to get as many LotR-related entries on our friends-pages as possible throughout March.
Sounds good? We've been there, let's go back again!"
Initiated by liek_omg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

=)

2 comments|post comment

The Siege of Gondor Discussion [24 Feb 2006|01:02am]

periantari
[ mood | accomplished ]

”Tell me” he said, “is there any hope? For Frodo, I mean; or at least mostly for Frodo.”
Gandalf put his hand on Pippin’s hand. “There never was much hope,” he answered. “Just a fool’s hope, as I have been told.”


I think I was looking forward to that little exchange between Gandalf and Pippin all throughout when I was rereading the chapter. I was looking forward also to it when I read it first because I knew that Faramir would bring news of Frodo and Sam—(and I would be very excited by then… ;)
But yes, the revelation of news that Faramir brought to Denethor, Gandalf and Pippin about the whereabouts of where Frodo and Sam are is very important and for me, very interesting to get the reactions from everyone because it’s very telling of their characters. Also important for Gandalf and Pippin to know where Frodo is, if hope indeed should be maintained still. I could quote the whole section but yeah, I love Gandalf and Pippin exchanges in the whole Book 5. :) =)

Character dynamics are especially interesting between Faramir and Denethor for we see here how estranged their relationship is.

If what I have done displeases you, my father,” said Faramir quietly, “I wish I had known your counsel before the burden of so weighty a judgment was thrust on me.”

“Do you wish then, that our places had been exchanged”

“Yes, I wish that indeed, said Denethor. “For Boromir was loyal to me and no wizard’s pupil. He would have remembered his father’s need, and would not have squandered what fortune gave.”


These lines are so heart breaking to hear and is very telling of what kind of man Denethor is. Even though he is portrayed to be wise and royal and proud, he has not the wisdom that Faramir did to not take the Ring.

Gandalf and Denethor’s relationship is also described very well as Gandalf tries to comfort Denethor of the rightness of Faramir’s action and says that Boromir had died well…

Their stirring of their wills against each other is once again described here (the first time, it was mentioned in the chapter "Minas Tirith")

For a moment the eyes of Denethor glowed again as he faced Gandalf, and Pippin felt once more the strain between their wills; but now almost it seemed as if their glances were like blades from eye to eye, flickering as they fenced.

The relationships between Denethor and Gandalf is indeed an interesting topic to talk about for they’re both powerful people, leaders, proud and strong yet the difference lies in their beliefs of what should be done with the Ring. Like Boromir, Denethor wishes that the Ring had been brought to Minas Tirith to be hidden but Gandalf believes otherwise. Tolkien mentions strife between them right from the beginning and it is interesting to talk about the ways in which they are similar and different.

Also, Denethor’s relationship with Faramir is described in this chapter through the exchanges that they have here and also when Faramir is brought back from his quest to retake Cair Andros and Osgiliath…
Further thoughts on this?

Now to one of my favorite passages that I’ve mentioned in the reading guide:

"Already it seemed years to Pippin since he had sat there before, in some half-forgotten time when he had still been a hobbit, a light-hearted wanderer touched by little by the perils he had passed through. Now he was one small soldier in a city preparing for a great assault, clad in the proud but somber manner of the Tower of the Guard.

I can write a whole essay on hobbits losing innocence from overcoming the Quest but I think that I can’t afford to do that here. :P

But yes, this is I think the second time in which we hear about the “smallness”, “hobbitness” of our heroes undergoing this adventure to learn about new people, experience and adventure that would forever change their lives. For Frodo, I remember that it was mentioned in “The Black Gate is Closed” that he was “only a simple hobbit of the quiet countryside, a little halfing of the Shire”…
And now little Pippin, not even of age, is experiencing war, a great siege right before his eyes. His swearing fealty to such a great Lord as Denethor is quite praise-worthy itself. And we continue to see character development in Pippin and really see how mature he has become.
More thoughts on this is welcome… ahem… Took lovers out there... ;)

Other Tookish moments I so adored from this chapter is his resolve to save Faramir from Denethor’s madness and his instruction to Beregond to not let Faramir die. He’s so brave and in desperate times, he really knew how to quickly react… and go find Gandalf.

Characterization of Faramir. We see that he is very much respected by the people of Gondor. As evidenced by how Beregond regards him, Pippin’s first view of him, and how anxious the people of Gondor reacted to him going off to battle and being injured.

I really love Faramir. I feel bad for his father’s poor judgment of him but he’s one of my favorite Men characters because he has such a noble and wise yet gentle spirit and David Wendham was awesome as him in the RotK movie. :)
His resolve to carry through with his “suicide mission” is quite admirable and I just wish Denethor had appreciated him more than he had…

More Faramir thoughts, please comment because I can’t seriously cover everything I want to say about his character… ;)

Hope is lost in this chapter for the Gondorians.
”So now at last the City was besieged, enclosed in a ring of foes.”

Their hope has dimmed even more so with the fear that the Rohirrim will not come in time.

The Witch-king and Gandalf moment was awesome in the last page of the chapter.

You cannot enter here. Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and yoru Master. Go!”

The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! He had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.

“Old fool!” he said “Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!” And with that he lifted high his sword and flames rand down the blade.
Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin’s sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last


It’s an awesome close to a very detail, event-packed chapter.
Tolkien couldn’t have ended the chapter any better.

And I have no words to describe that but:
Beautiful imager, description, and…

This chapter was wonderful. In every way. ♥ ♥

Discussion is now OPEN!!!!!!!!!!

3 comments|post comment

The Siege of Gondor Reading Guide [19 Feb 2006|10:24pm]

periantari
[ mood | LotR is Love ]

Things to think about:

Many things happen in this chapter and I find it packed with significant events that warrant a looong discussion about.

Key events/themes/issues include
--the conversation between Denethor, Faramir, Gandalf and Pippin about their defenses but most importantly, fate of Frodo and Sam …
--the Siege of Gondor itself and all its excitement...
--(Grond, Nazgul, desperateness, etc) :P
--Hope and despair of losing the battle … and of Faramir, their captain being down...just mucho angst in this chapter... especially since through the eyes of Pippin, it was one of the toughest times for him during the Quest.
And Denethor faling to despair and madness came from this chapter as well...

We see more of Pippin and his point of view in what’s happening and one quote I would particularly love to discuss on Wednesday is this one:

"Already it seemed years to Pippin since he had sat there before, in some half-forgotten time when he had still been a hobbit, a light-hearted wanderer touched by little by the perils he had passed through. Now he was one small soldier in a city preparing for a great assault, clad in the proud but somber manner of the Tower of the Guard.

This quote struck me and makes me hyper to think of not only Pippin growing throughout the Quest but the hobbits as well. And I’ll say more on Wednesday but please think about this. ;)

-Characterization of Faramir. We see that he is very much respected by the people of Gondor. As evidenced by how Beregond regards him, Pippin’s first view of him, and how anxious the people of Gondor reacted to him going off to battle and being injured. Also his tense relationship with Denethor is shown in quite evidently here and more of Denethor’s character too is portrayed here.

--The ending of the chapter was awesome as well and Gandalf’s showdown with the Witch-king warrants some introspection and discussion as well. J

So reread the chapter! I look forward to more of YOUR thoughts on Wednesday/Thursday.
(I have exam on Thursday so… we’ll see how insomniac I get ;)



Rereading the books is love. ♥ =) In the meanwhile, go to this post:
http://community.livejournal.com/readthebook/50620.html?mode=reply
to claim a chapter/give feedback/suggestions...
hannon le!


Comments disabled till Wednesday, February 22nd

Claim a chapter... and more participation? [05 Feb 2006|12:36am]

periantari
[ mood | thoughtful ]

"I will not say the day is done, nor bid the stars farewell." ~Sam

Hey all,
Just a friendly reminder that we need people to help facilitate discussion these coming weeks. I've volunteered for the week of the 19th for The Siege of Gondor but I surely am not the only one here among such fine folk that want a say about LotR. :)

But seeing that participation hasn't been very high these couple weeks, i do have some links to essays that may be of interest to you.

From the 2005 Troy University Mythology Symposium, there are some awesome essays from the faculty and students that talk about many topics...

Listed below are the paper names:
"The Biblical Structure of The Lord of the Rings"
"The Lord of the Rings and the Medieval Literary Tradition"

"Jung and Innocent: The Hobbits as the Unconscious of Middle-Earth"
"Galadriel: The Goddess in Lothlórien"
"Aragorn and Frodo: A Comparison of Heroes"

Link to these topics:
http://spectrum.troy.edu/~mythsymposium/

I've read the "Hobbits as the Unconscious of Middle-Earth" and the Aragorn and Frodo ones ...maybe a discussion of these papers would be something everyone would love to do?

Or if the chapter idea is still cool, we can stick to it but we just need more volunteers. :)

So please, claim a chapter, any chapter and help discuss! :)

Because you know rereading Tolkien is Love. ♥ =)

Suggestions, concerns, q's, please comment. (i really don't bite! :)

Thanks all.

g'nite, mellyn nin~

6 comments|post comment

Some SatK Eowyn/Faramir drawings from Anke Eissman. [29 Jan 2006|12:51am]

periantari
[ mood | full of LotR Love ]

Please check them out. ;)

But now, were you sorrowless, without fear or any lack, were you the blissful Queen of Gondor, still I would love you. Éowyn, do you not love me?'Collapse )
More beautiful pics here: http://anke.edoras-art.de/anke_tolkien_lotr6.html

Enjoy and Love! ;)
Tolkien is Love after all. ;) ♥ ♥

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The Steward and the King [24 Jan 2006|09:49am]

pokecharm

This is a wonderul transitional chapter.  The quest of the ring was officially completed in the previous chapter (The Field of Cormallen) and the news of Frodo's actions would reach Minas Tirith during this chapter.  The main focus of this chapter is the relationship between Eowyn and Faramir as well as the change in power from the Stewardship to the rightful King of Men.

The chapter starts out with the Eowyn, the shield-maiden of Rohan, demanding to the Steward, Faramir to be allowed to follow the men to march on the Black Gate.  She is of course too weak to do so and Faramir begins to love Eowyn despite her refusal of his love.  He looked at her, and being a man whom pity deelpy stirred, it seemed to him that her loveliness and her grief would pierce his heart.  This quote tells of Faramir's difference from his brother, more of a thinker, and his compassion.  As the scene progresses the question becomes why is Eowyn so enamoured with dying and why is Faramir so dedicated to changing her mind.

As the two spend more time together Eowyn gets better, but when news from Comallen are heard in Minis Tirith, Faramir is seperated from her and her health begins to wane again.  It is here that one of the most romantic scenes Tolkien as ever written progresses.  I'm not going to re-type it all, but there is one quote we can't live without :p

And Eowyn looked at Faramir long and steadily; and Faramir said: 'Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart, Eowyn!  But I do not offer you my pity.  For you are a lady high and valiant and have yourself won renown that shall not be forgotten; and you are a lady beautiful, I deem, beyond even the words of the Elven-tongue to tell.  And I love you.'

After the two profess their love for one another the chapter continues and Faramir gives the city to Aragorn as the King of Gondor.  Aragorn then quotes Elendil, 'Et Earello Endorenna utulien.  Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!'

The mercy and justness of King Elessar is seen with respect to Beregrond - having spilled blood spilled in the Hallows and deserting his post.  The King relieves him of his duties in Minis Tirith and charges him to be Faramir's company in Ithilien.  It would seem that after all of the traveling that Aragorn had done as a Ranger and the growing up he had done over the years, he had become a just King.

There is a great passage between Gandalf and Aragorn where the wizard shows Aragorn all of his realm as well as a sapling of the white tree that is brough back to the White City.

Aragorn also asks the Fellowship to stay in the White City and the Fellowship wondered about it, but as the summer approached all answers were revealed.  Then the King welcomed his guests, and they alighted; and Elrond surrendered the sceptre, and laid the hand of his daughter in the hand of the King, and together they went up into the High City, and all the stars flowered in the sky.

Start discussing!!

8 comments|post comment

The Steward and the King [22 Jan 2006|10:08am]

pokecharm

This is a wonderul transitional chapter.  The quest of the ring was officially completed in the previous chapter (The Field of Cormallen) and the news of Frodo's actions would reach Minas Tirith during this chapter.  The main focus of this chapter is the relationship between Eowyn and Faramir as well as the change in power from the Stewardship to the rightful King of Men.

The chapter starts out with the Eowyn, the shield-maiden of Rohan, demanding to the Steward, Faramir to be allowed to follow the men to march on the Black Gate.  She is of course too weak to do so and Faramir begins to love Eowyn despite her refusal of his love.  He looked at her, and being a man whom pity deelpy stirred, it seemed to him that her loveliness and her grief would pierce his heart.  This quote tells of Faramir's difference from his brother, more of a thinker, and his compassion.  As the scene progresses the question becomes why is Eowyn so enamoured with dying and why is Faramir so dedicated to changing her mind.

As the two spend more time together Eowyn gets better, but when news from Comallen are heard in Minis Tirith, Faramir is seperated from her and her health begins to wane again.  It is here that one of the most romantic scenes Tolkien as ever written progresses.  I'm not going to re-type it all, but there is one quote we can't live without :p

And Eowyn looked at Faramir long and steadily; and Faramir said: 'Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart, Eowyn!  But I do not offer you my pity.  For you are a lady high and valiant and have yourself won renown that shall not be forgotten; and you are a lady beautiful, I deem, beyond even the words of the Elven-tongue to tell.  And I love you.'

After the two profess their love for one another the chapter continues and Faramir gives the city to Aragorn as the King of Gondor.  Aragorn then quotes Elendil, 'Et Earello Endorenna utulien.  Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!'

The mercy and justness of King Elessar is seen with respect to Beregrond - having spilled blood spilled in the Hallows and deserting his post.  The King relieves him of his duties in Minis Tirith and charges him to be Faramir's company in Ithilien.  It would seem that after all of the traveling that Aragorn had done as a Ranger and the growing up he had done over the years, he had become a just King.

There is a great passage between Gandalf and Aragorn where the wizard shows Aragorn all of his realm as well as a sapling of the white tree that is brough back to the White City.

Aragorn also asks the Fellowship to stay in the White City and the Fellowship wondered about it, but as the summer approached all answers were revealed.  Then the King welcomed his guests, and they alighted; and Elrond surrendered the sceptre, and laid the hand of his daughter in the hand of the King, and together they went up into the High City, and all the stars flowered in the sky.

Well - get your books out and get ready!  Discussion starts Wedensday!!

The Choices of Master Samwise Discussion [18 Jan 2006|09:54pm]

periantari
[ mood | accomplished ]

Discussion is now OPEN SO JOIN IN ! =)

Sam did not wait to wonder what was to be done, whether he was brave, or loyal, or filled with rage. He sprang forward with a yell, and seized his master's sword in his left hand. Then he charged. No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in the savage world of beasts, where some desperate small creature armed with little teeth, alone, will spring upon a tower of horn and hide that stands above its fallen mate."
So thus begins the last chapter of TTT.
I so love this quote. ♥ ♥

But onto the discussion q's:
Obviously, the title of the chapter deals with Sam making the decision to either go on the Quest and forsake his master and fling away all his responsibilities from being a member of the Fellowship to stay by Frodo. What does everyone think about his choice to leave at first and go on? What other choice does he have?

Sam’s loyalty and dedication has always been his main characteristics that I love. To what extent was his choice right in following his heart or rather his mind?


The question I also pose, is what would you have done if you were in Sam’s place? I think his internal debate about whether going on without Frodo or staying with him was so heartbreaking.

In my opinion, this chapter is one of the most emotional one for the reader to read. No one knew whether Frodo was alive or not and Sam’s devotion to Frodo and his indecisiveness on whether or not to go on gets into the emotional of the story. For Sam, the prospects of going on with the Ring or staying do not bode well to be good prospects either way.

At first Sam cites one of his reasons for going on is because he wants to find Gollum and kill him.
Now he tried to find strength to tear himself away and go on a lonely journey—for vengeance. If once he could go, his anger would bear him down all the roads of the world, pursuing, until he had him at last: Gollum. Then Gollum would die in a corner. But that was not what he had set out to do. It would not be worth while to leave his master for that. It would not bring him back. Nothing would. They had better both be dead together. And that too would be a lonely journey.

What is also interesting about his debate is how that inner voice tells him that Frodo were given companions in Rivendell so that if anything should happen to the Ring-bearer, the Quest could hopefully be achieved.

And it’s not for me to go taking the Ring, putting myself forward.” Sam says.

But you haven’t put yourself forward; you’ve been put forward. And as for not being the right and proper person, why, Mr. Frodo wasn’t, as you might say, nor Bilbo. They didn’t choose themselves.”

I find this inner voice so incredibly logical and I wonder if that is the “mind” part of Sam speaking…

Going back to my initial question: What would YOU have done if you were in Sam’s place? Would you do what he had done: go on without his master because the Quest is so important to fulfill? Thoughts? (or you’ll be as torn as Sam was?)

The moment which is always memorable for me is when he says that he can’t do the Quest without Mr. Frodo though upon knowing that he has been captured by the orcs.

I can’t help it. My place is by Mr. Frodo. They must understand that—Elrond and the Council, and the great Lords and Ladies with all their wisdom. Their plans have gone wrong. I can’t be their Ring-bearer. Not without Mr. Frodo.”

Sam’s loyalty, devotion and hope that is given to Frodo is a theme of pure friendship and love that is portrayed very beautifully by Tolkien. My favorite friendship and characters in LotR is this one by far because of the fact that Sam would lay down his life to go to the ends of the world with the master he loves is just so… just so wonderfully admirable of him. It is Sam’s undying devotion and loyalty is what made the Quest succeed. For Frodo wouldn’t have gone far without the indomitable spirit of Sam. ♥ ♥

Even when Frodo was captured by the orcs, do you think that at that time, Sam had a solid plan on how to save Frodo? And given the fact that he still didn’t know if Frodo was alive or not, would his sole purpose in staying by Frodo’s side is to rescue him.. and then what? (if indeed Frodo was dead from the poison?)


”And for a moment he lifted up the Phial and looked down at his master, and the light burned gently now with the soft radiance of the evening-star in summer, and in that light Frodo’s face was fair of hue again, pale but beautiful with an elvish beauty, as of one who has long passed the shadows.”

Other than the beautiful way in which Tolkien wrote this about one of my favorite characters <3, what other significances does it have? It has been spoken about before about Frodo’s Elvish beauty, but in the eyes of Sam, is this reminiscent of what he saw in the Mirror of Galadriel so do you think that Tolkien liked to remind us that Frodo is indeed one of the most important and Elvish hobbits of the Shire?

The line about Mr. Frodo and his beauty shining forth makes me wonder and think about the many references that there are about Frodo’s Elvish air. Instances in which this has been mentioned include Faramir’s thought that Frodo possessing an Elvish air in The Window to the West chapter in TTT. Also, Gandalf had mentioned the light that was in Frodo’s eyes when Frodo first awoke in Rivendell from the Morgul wound.

Are there any other references you would like to point out?

Are there any thoughts also about the coarseness of their talk and their babble? This is the second time in Two Towers that we hear about orc talk--- how is it different than how orc talk was introduced in the chapter “The Uruk-hai”?

Snaga and Shagrat seemed to reveal far too many details in their conversation. Didn’t they know that the “big Elven warrior” was still on the loose? ;)

Regarding comparing the talk with the talk of the Uruk-hai from Book 3 chapter 3, I think we get a feel for the different types of orc language there is since the Uruk-hai are made by Saruman and these Mordor orcs probably do have different accents and ways of saying things…
I’m no orc scholar so anyone who wants to talk about orcs and especially these two are welcome to it. Anything special you want to note down, please comment.

But Sam is the main focus of the chapter… Just the fact that he is faced with such an important decision makes me so very sympathetic. (and love him all the more.) ♥

”If only I could have my wish, my one wish,” he sighed, “to go back and find him!” Then at last he turned to the road in front and took a few steps: the heaviest and the most reluctant he had ever taken. oh Sam! :*(

Regarding Sam and the Ring:

I don’t have any theory on why Sauron couldn’t see him so easily since Sam is practically right at the doorsteps of Mordor, but I think that probably Sauron’s bending his malice on other events of the War… but still…I thought that Sam would be more susceptible of being seen since the Ring is still calling for his master…

This is an amazing ending chapter to Two Towers. This was such a cliff-hanger that makes you speed up to the next book. When I first read the last chapter, I couldn’t wait to find out what happens with Frodo. How many people ran to RotK as fast as possible after this awesome cliffhanger ending? =)

But I think I’ve written enough… Thoughts anyone?

21 comments|post comment

Questions to think about for The Choices of Master Samwise [16 Jan 2006|05:10pm]

periantari
[ mood | rushed ]

Sorry I'm late... :blush:

Questions for The Choices of Master Samwise :

I can’t help it. My place is by Mr. Frodo. They must understand that—Elrond and the Council, and the great Lords and Ladies with all their wisdom. Their plans have gone wrong. I can’t be their Ring-bearer. Not without Mr. Frodo.”

Obviously, the title of the chapter deals with Sam making the decision to either go on the Quest and forsake his master and fling away all his responsibilities from being a member of the Fellowship to stay by Frodo. What does everyone think about his choice to leave at first and go on? What other choice does he have?

Sam’s loyalty and dedication has always been his main characteristics that I love. To what extent was his choice right in following his heart or rather his mind?

”And for a moment he lifted up the Phial and looked down at his master, and the light burned gently now with the soft radiance of the evening-star in summer, and in that light Frodo’s face was fair of hue again, pale but beautiful with an elvish beauty, as of one who has long passed the shadows.”

Other than the beautiful way in which Tolkien wrote this about one of my favorite characters <3, what other significances does it have? It has been spoken about before about Frodo’s Elvish beauty, but in the eyes of Sam, is this reminiscent of what he saw in the Mirror of Galadriel so do you think that Tolkien liked to remind us that Frodo is indeed one of the most important and Elvish hobbits of the Shire?

"It won't sound too pretty to say you've caught the kitten and let the cat escape."
Orc talk:
Thoughts about how revealing Shagrat and Snaga’s talk was for Sam? Not only do we learn about the going-ons in the War but also that Frodo is not dead…
Are there any thoughts also about the coarseness of their talk and their babble? This is the second time in Two Towers that we hear about orc talk--- how is it different than how orc talk was introduced in the chapter “The Uruk-hai”?


Of Sam and the Ring
Are there any thoughts about when Sam put on the Ring? One question that’s always been weighing on my mind is why the Eye did not see Sam right at that instance especially because he’s so close to Mordor… was Sauron really that occupied in his energy upon Gondor and the other battles of Middle Earth to not see Sam?


Comments disabled for now ...
Discussion begins Wednesday, January 18th... now go reread the chapter! ;) =)

Reminders & other stuff =) [14 Jan 2006|12:30am]

periantari
[ mood | okay ]

Thanks for all you wonderful folk for volunteering to lead discussions throughout the weeks--i think they're going quite well but always nice for more people to comment as well. ;)

This is the schedule as of 1/30/06:

January 8th - poppithefenling: The Council of Elrond
January 15th - periantari: The Choices of Master Samwise
January 22th- pokecharm: The Steward and the King

angelsghost has a lock on The House of Tom Bombadil, for when she can.
poppithefenling has a claim on Strider for when she can.

Members should feel free to claim more than one chapter! =)

Feel free to comment here if you have interest to claim a chapter. The more the merrier and hope everyone is enjoying rereading your favorite parts of the book.

Remember that the schedule is also in the User info

and that we have a photobucket account so upload your fave pictures there! =)

photobucket account
username: readthebook
password: gandalf

Any q's, just comment with you thoughts.
Hope ya'll having fun, mellyn nin! ♥

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The Council of Elrond [13 Jan 2006|06:57pm]

poppithefenling
What do you notice about Elrond's character in this chapter? Is he a good leader?

Personally I feel the answer to this has to be no. I noticed a type of weakness, easily mistaken for wisdom, was shown through his conduct and control (or lack thereof) in this council meeting. 'Council of Elrond' seems a little contradictory within its self because it is, in the end, Frodo who saves the day. Perhaps you are of a different opinion but I feel this was further reflected in later chapters when he lacked control over Arwen's decision to stay. I found myself thinking that this was the biggest sign of how out of touch the Elves have become, Legolas being the only one who is, and how with Elrond becoming distant and Galadriel becoming a little tainted by the possibility of taking the ring we see Tolkien pushing Elves from the important matters now throttling Middle Earth.

As each character of the fellowship is introduced we are given the essence of their personality, what do you think of Tolkien's language used when doing this?

Everybody I know who has read Lord of the Rings turns to me when they get to this chapter and asks me how long it drags on. The beginning of LOTR is fairly slow and sadly this Chapter is all too reflective of how matter-of-fact, or overly descriptive, Tolkien's language can become.

I felt, however, that the manner in which he introduced us to these all-important characters was spectacular. He guided us around the Council, one by one, their reaction showing us that this person was going to become more significant. Legolas, in particular, made me smile when he stood up to argue for the King of Gondor. Aragorn is quite quiet until this point when he calms his friend and then speaks wisely to Boromir. Gimli we see with his axe - attacking the ring. We never seperate the two again. This is why I remember this chapter so well.

When Aragorn stands to speak it is to argue against Boromir, we see tension between the two and a bad beginning to a necessary relationship. What differences can we note between them that already label Aragorn heir of Gondor?

A dreadful foot to begin on. Boromir is fiery, unthoughtful and very sterotypical of a man who is too respected in his own lands. The way he tries to sway the Council to his way of thinking is devious and selfish. Yet, despite hatred blooming in the reader, Aragorn stands forth and for the first time we see him in a rather Kingly sense with wise wides soothing the instinctive man who dares not admit that he is King of Gondor. The differences are striking and Tolkien is a genius to have done this because without the extremity of Boromir to compare Aragorn to, we may never have thought him fit for the role.

In the midst of argument Frodo steps forth to take the title of Ring Bearer, we begin to see his character becoming more thoughtful and less happy, what other changes do you notice in him since we met him in the Shire?
This part of the Chapter gnawed at my heart. The wound in Frodo's shoulder and all the malicious experiences since leaving the Shire have dragged down what was a happy hobbit. Of course, Frodo was always quite an introvert but this just intensifies the matter and I was sad thinking about such a lovely character having to face the dangers he would. He is much wiser now and with the aid of Aragorn (or Strider as he is preferred at this point) he has begun to make his decisions with great thought and consideration - not something ever required of the laid back life he led in the Shire.

>When the other hobbits emerge to offer up service Elrond is weary of sending them but caves, how do you feel about our four trusy hobbits going off to fated peril?

I felt similarly as I did with Frodo and I felt it a great shame that none of them would return to try and protect the Shire. But, then again, without the experiences they gained throughout their perilous journeys they never would have been able to return and overthrow Sauron in 'The Scouring of the Shire'. Of course, I couldn't see much use for Pippin and Merry and could only see use for Sam in the sense of emotional support for the Ring Bearer.

How do you feel about the fellowship selected, is it as strong as is needed? If not, where are the flaws?

Tolkien was wise in his creation of the characters; each has their flaws but each provides great strength to the party. All except Boromir, perhaps. But then the taint of men must be represented in order for Frodo to gain the knowledge and experience that he needs to pluck up the guts to leave the Fellowship at the end of this book. I felt Aragorn, Gandalf and Legolas were perfectly selected though I was a little more doubtful about Gimli. Of course, he added the humour and the book couldn't have lasted without that!
I thoroughly enjoy reading this chapter simply because of all the different emotions that it stirs in me. I guess I also love it because it is when the real story begins and we are able to piece more and more together as this Chapter progresses.

Please feel free to bring up any points you wish to discuss, concerning this chapter.
3 comments|post comment

The Council of Elrond [06 Jan 2006|11:36am]

poppithefenling
[ mood | grateful ]

First off, apologies for this being done so close to the last discussion but I'm not online over the weekend.

The Council of Elrond:

This weeks discussion point is 'The Council of Elrond'.



Suggested considerations whilst reading:

What do you notice about Elrond's character in this chapter? Is he a good leader?

As each character of the fellowship is introduced we are given the essence of their personality, what do you think of Tolkien's language used when doing this?

When Aragorn stands to speak it is to argue against Boromir, we see tension between the two and a bad beginning to a necessary relationship. What differences can we note between them that already label Aragorn heir of Gondor?

In the midst of argument Frodo steps forth to take the title of Ring Bearer, we begin to see his character becoming more thoughtful and less happy, what other changes do you notice in him since we met him in the Shire?

When the other hobbits emerge to offer up service Elrond is weary of sending them but caves, how do you feel about our four trusy hobbits going off to fated peril?

How do you feel about the fellowship selected, is it as strong as is needed? If not, where are the flaws?

Please feel free to bring up any points you wish to discuss, concerning this chapter.

Discussion begins January 11th.

The Houses of Healing [06 Jan 2006|12:25pm]

cloudednine
Discussion is now open on this weeks chapter: The Houses of Healing.

Before I start, I have to say that this is my favourite chapter in the book, and the scene where Aragorn calls Faramir back from the Shadow is my favourite scene in the book. I love it to pieces, though it raises more questions than it answers. But I’ll get to that later.

- Has Pippin changed from the beginning of the book, and what role has Merry (or the absence of Merry) played in this? In this chapter we see Pippin finding an injured Merry and taking charge, where previously it had usually been Merry taking care of Pippin. Has Pippin's time without Merry has forced him to grow up, so they can relate more as equals?

- Was Eowyn a heroine or a deserter? She does seem to be a deserter in that she rode to battle and certain death when she should have been governing her people, but her courage against the Witch King is heroic.

- How did Faramir recognise Aragorn when he was first awoken? Was it foresight, or from one of his dreams? Did he remember saying it later? And did he ever worry about whether Aragorn would be a good king? I would like to think that Faramir did take some political considerations into account, but I can’t see any evidence of it. He had no idea what sort of military or political support Aragorn had when he acknowledged him as king.

- I am very curious about what the Black Shadow actually is. For example, it is certainly physical, as its victims lapse into a coma, and it seems to be caused magically by the Nazgul, but people who are already tired and grieving seem to be more susceptible to it, which suggests a mental component.

- What was Imrahil’s motivation in giving Aragorn his support and fealty? Did he recognise Aragorn as Thorongil, or did he just see which way the political winds were blowing?

- Is the overall message of this chapter in favour of war or against war? In context, does this chapter represent an ending or a beginning? I don’t think there is any one answer to this. On one hand, this chapter seems to be in favour of wars with just cause, but that is balanced by the various deaths and injuries.

- Also, you can definitely see the firm friendship between Aragorn and Eomer here. Eomer is honestly concerned for Aragorn's wellbeing. I love Eomer. :)
6 comments|post comment

The Houses of Healing [01 Jan 2006|11:51am]

cloudednine

This week's chapter for discussion is The Houses of Healing.

 

Things to consider while reading:

- How has Pippin changed from the beginning of the book, and what role has Merry (or the absence of Merry) played in this?

 

- Was Eowyn suicidal when she rode to the Pellenor fields? Is she still suicidal now? Was she a heroine or a deserter?

 

- How did Faramir recognise Aragorn when he was first awoken? Was it foresight, or from one of his dreams? And did he ever worry about whether Aragorn would be a good king?

 

- What is the Black Shadow? Is it a mental, physical or magical condition, or some combination of the three?

 

- What made Imrahil decide to recognise Aragorn as his king? Did he recognise Aragorn as Thorongil?

 

- Is the overall message of this chapter in favour of war or against war? In the context of the longer novel, does this chapter represent an ending or a beginning?

 

Discussion will begin on Wednesday, January 4th.

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