Hobbity forever (periantari) wrote in readthebook,
Hobbity forever

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The Choices of Master Samwise Discussion

Discussion is now OPEN SO JOIN IN ! =)

Sam did not wait to wonder what was to be done, whether he was brave, or loyal, or filled with rage. He sprang forward with a yell, and seized his master's sword in his left hand. Then he charged. No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in the savage world of beasts, where some desperate small creature armed with little teeth, alone, will spring upon a tower of horn and hide that stands above its fallen mate."
So thus begins the last chapter of TTT.
I so love this quote. ♥ ♥

But onto the discussion q's:
Obviously, the title of the chapter deals with Sam making the decision to either go on the Quest and forsake his master and fling away all his responsibilities from being a member of the Fellowship to stay by Frodo. What does everyone think about his choice to leave at first and go on? What other choice does he have?

Sam’s loyalty and dedication has always been his main characteristics that I love. To what extent was his choice right in following his heart or rather his mind?

The question I also pose, is what would you have done if you were in Sam’s place? I think his internal debate about whether going on without Frodo or staying with him was so heartbreaking.

In my opinion, this chapter is one of the most emotional one for the reader to read. No one knew whether Frodo was alive or not and Sam’s devotion to Frodo and his indecisiveness on whether or not to go on gets into the emotional of the story. For Sam, the prospects of going on with the Ring or staying do not bode well to be good prospects either way.

At first Sam cites one of his reasons for going on is because he wants to find Gollum and kill him.
Now he tried to find strength to tear himself away and go on a lonely journey—for vengeance. If once he could go, his anger would bear him down all the roads of the world, pursuing, until he had him at last: Gollum. Then Gollum would die in a corner. But that was not what he had set out to do. It would not be worth while to leave his master for that. It would not bring him back. Nothing would. They had better both be dead together. And that too would be a lonely journey.

What is also interesting about his debate is how that inner voice tells him that Frodo were given companions in Rivendell so that if anything should happen to the Ring-bearer, the Quest could hopefully be achieved.

And it’s not for me to go taking the Ring, putting myself forward.” Sam says.

But you haven’t put yourself forward; you’ve been put forward. And as for not being the right and proper person, why, Mr. Frodo wasn’t, as you might say, nor Bilbo. They didn’t choose themselves.”

I find this inner voice so incredibly logical and I wonder if that is the “mind” part of Sam speaking…

Going back to my initial question: What would YOU have done if you were in Sam’s place? Would you do what he had done: go on without his master because the Quest is so important to fulfill? Thoughts? (or you’ll be as torn as Sam was?)

The moment which is always memorable for me is when he says that he can’t do the Quest without Mr. Frodo though upon knowing that he has been captured by the orcs.

I can’t help it. My place is by Mr. Frodo. They must understand that—Elrond and the Council, and the great Lords and Ladies with all their wisdom. Their plans have gone wrong. I can’t be their Ring-bearer. Not without Mr. Frodo.”

Sam’s loyalty, devotion and hope that is given to Frodo is a theme of pure friendship and love that is portrayed very beautifully by Tolkien. My favorite friendship and characters in LotR is this one by far because of the fact that Sam would lay down his life to go to the ends of the world with the master he loves is just so… just so wonderfully admirable of him. It is Sam’s undying devotion and loyalty is what made the Quest succeed. For Frodo wouldn’t have gone far without the indomitable spirit of Sam. ♥ ♥

Even when Frodo was captured by the orcs, do you think that at that time, Sam had a solid plan on how to save Frodo? And given the fact that he still didn’t know if Frodo was alive or not, would his sole purpose in staying by Frodo’s side is to rescue him.. and then what? (if indeed Frodo was dead from the poison?)

”And for a moment he lifted up the Phial and looked down at his master, and the light burned gently now with the soft radiance of the evening-star in summer, and in that light Frodo’s face was fair of hue again, pale but beautiful with an elvish beauty, as of one who has long passed the shadows.”

Other than the beautiful way in which Tolkien wrote this about one of my favorite characters <3, what other significances does it have? It has been spoken about before about Frodo’s Elvish beauty, but in the eyes of Sam, is this reminiscent of what he saw in the Mirror of Galadriel so do you think that Tolkien liked to remind us that Frodo is indeed one of the most important and Elvish hobbits of the Shire?

The line about Mr. Frodo and his beauty shining forth makes me wonder and think about the many references that there are about Frodo’s Elvish air. Instances in which this has been mentioned include Faramir’s thought that Frodo possessing an Elvish air in The Window to the West chapter in TTT. Also, Gandalf had mentioned the light that was in Frodo’s eyes when Frodo first awoke in Rivendell from the Morgul wound.

Are there any other references you would like to point out?

Are there any thoughts also about the coarseness of their talk and their babble? This is the second time in Two Towers that we hear about orc talk--- how is it different than how orc talk was introduced in the chapter “The Uruk-hai”?

Snaga and Shagrat seemed to reveal far too many details in their conversation. Didn’t they know that the “big Elven warrior” was still on the loose? ;)

Regarding comparing the talk with the talk of the Uruk-hai from Book 3 chapter 3, I think we get a feel for the different types of orc language there is since the Uruk-hai are made by Saruman and these Mordor orcs probably do have different accents and ways of saying things…
I’m no orc scholar so anyone who wants to talk about orcs and especially these two are welcome to it. Anything special you want to note down, please comment.

But Sam is the main focus of the chapter… Just the fact that he is faced with such an important decision makes me so very sympathetic. (and love him all the more.) ♥

”If only I could have my wish, my one wish,” he sighed, “to go back and find him!” Then at last he turned to the road in front and took a few steps: the heaviest and the most reluctant he had ever taken. oh Sam! :*(

Regarding Sam and the Ring:

I don’t have any theory on why Sauron couldn’t see him so easily since Sam is practically right at the doorsteps of Mordor, but I think that probably Sauron’s bending his malice on other events of the War… but still…I thought that Sam would be more susceptible of being seen since the Ring is still calling for his master…

This is an amazing ending chapter to Two Towers. This was such a cliff-hanger that makes you speed up to the next book. When I first read the last chapter, I couldn’t wait to find out what happens with Frodo. How many people ran to RotK as fast as possible after this awesome cliffhanger ending? =)

But I think I’ve written enough… Thoughts anyone?
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